Acceptance of Women and Trans men/women.October 9, 2016
Something Leather and Kink communities struggle with is the acceptance of women and trans men/women. For this topic specifically the Puppy community has begun to exclude anyone not Male (or born to that sex) from events. Why? How would you change that? Will you accept Females and trans men/women in your events without question? Personally I don’t care what’s in your pants. I’ve met plenty of female puppies who dominate a mosh pit and many trans men/women that can get real kinky in a dungeon real quick.
TH Says: Oddly, we’re seeing just the opposite here in MN. Our last mosh had more women in attendance (in and out of the pit) than we’ve ever had. Hope that continues to grow. I imagine it will since we’ve been very inviting to those who have shown up.
BM Says: I’ve moshed with men, women, and trans individuals. I don’t see the issue. It all comes down to one thing, we are pups!! Look at it this way. Go to the dog park, take your puppy off it’s leash… Does this puppy avoid any other puppy based on their sex??? Now just be puppies and stop the nonsense!!
YW Says: One is trying to convince it would be beneficial for their business as most likely the bar’s concern is new crowd will distracted from the main theme. At least let them give this type event few try. If that doesn’t work then I will lessen or stop supporting their business but I wouldn’t verbalise that as a threat.
AT Says: MAR-PAH has always accepted pups of all genders and orientations. We won’t turn anyone away. Heck, our den mother is female
TG Says: Transphobia is also a dirty little secret of the LG part of the rainbow. While many are accepting, there is a loud minority of gay and lesbian individuals who are completely dismissive of anyone who is trans.
DB Says: I’ve known a few pups who are gay who aren’t accepted, and sadly the pup “community” has an attitude that all identities are valid but some are more valid than others
PB Says: My comment is basically just gonna be an advertisement for our local pup scene and host bar: Our pup community consists of male pups, female pups, Trans pups and non gender identifying pups.
RH Says: We are all pups and Handlers and gender or any other reason should not exclude anyone from being included period.
KI Says: I find when people have an issue with women or trans men/women in spaces, it’s because they think it will interfere with their ability to be sexual in a space or they are holding on to a form of hypermasculinity which tries to exclude anything not alined with that view. Myself, I am welcoming of all persons no matter what and I always gravitate to spaces that are like that as well. We always have to remember that just because we like to live on our own constructed islands, doesn’t mean real life works that way. If you want that, you can live in a compound on your own land and exclude anyone you want (although I doubt you will be popular with society as a whole). We can help to change attitudes like that by trying to address the source, which is often this feeling that people will lose what they have instead of gaining something more by not being so closed off
MY Says: I pretty much agree with all comments here about inclusivity over outdated patriarchy but let’s talk about bar spaces since this is worth a conversation. Not too long ago a transwoman was kicked out of a bar because she was making a female patron ‘uncomfortable’ by going to the bathroom. While not nearly comparable the leather bar I just recently adopted here has a number of female patrons actively expressing discomfort at the softcore tumblr images on the TV and the trough style toilets. It’s kind of an invasive but tacit form of heteronormativity that comes in with the desire to be inclusive. I remember in DC and Philadelphia back when real porn was on the TV, and, if you’re a gay man, you’ve all been subject to the drunken bachelorette party/college girl thing at least once.
Since gay leather spaces are usually where pups go to gather and to drink there’s a hostile reaction to anyone who’s a pup who’s not a cis male because of these incursions. It sucks since these pups are trying to express themselves in a space made for outsiders already. Even so I’ve heard a female pup tell me that some of the stuff that went down in the basement of a leather bar in Pittsburgh ‘uncomfortable’…while in that bar for a mosh.
So now that I’ve played Devil’s Advocate here’s what I would do:
Continue to allow non cis males in gay bars for pup events. The benefits of striking down misogyny in the pup community outweigh the detriments of the destruction of gay spaces. If you’re really concerned for your bar as a leather safe space discuss the goals of the bar with the owner and then emphasize to *all* pups in it that they are *guests* and that they should treat the space with that in mind. Lord knows gay cis pups do enough damage to men on their own even if their not shaming the other patrons for their sexuality. If the space doesn’t allow women or non cis people? Don’t use it. It’s that easy.
DH Says: I think that’s an important thing to recognize too. That if you are going into a gay or leather bar respect that space (and that’s not too much to ask)
TO Says: My beta is FTM. In no way would I want to be part of any pup activity where my Beta is not welcome.
MS Says: There’s a straight forward and simple solution to inclusivity and it starts at the top. If you see a problem in the community get involved. Take a leadership role and create opportunity for all. It’s truly that simple. If your PAH group tries to block you or push you out, make a new group, because any PAH that doesn’t serve all of its community needs to be shut down and replaced with something better. We should all be striving to created spaced for all pups to meet and make friends.
RB Says: Not sure where this is being seen. In Seattle we have an all inclusive group and have had female pups since day 1. We have specifically turned down venues from hosting events because they are male only venues and that violates our bylaws.
PC Says: Murphy My opinion all pups should be welcomed .. no matter what.
KA Says: Luckily I haven’t seen that here, and would kick it in the teeth if I did. As founder of a PAH group, I made sure to include in our mission statement that we were open to all puppies regardless of gender or sexuality.
LB Says: Guess I’m lucky in a way that there are no pup groups near me(Within rang to walk). I just pup alone, even if it’s lonely I do it cause I know I’m safe from being told I can’t just cause I’m that “crazy” female that’s a pup. Granted this is probably a downfall too for me as I now have 0 experience around other pups. I think to help curb these weird “rules” of no females/trans allowed more classes should get held in those areas to show not just how GREAT events can be with the female/trans portion of the community but also show them how incredibly hurtful such “rules” are. As a pup who was actually kicked from a kink community. And someone who suffers from PTSD induced social anxiety… That was the worst. It took my Handler a good 3 months to help me get my head on straight again and not feel like the worst puppy in the world just because I’m a platonic pup that wears clothes. These people need reminded while yes pup play started as mostly male it has also evolved into something grand. A place full of open hearts and minds. A place of acceptance, Where you wont be judge by what’s hanging on your chest, between your legs, or how you may be trans. None of that ultimately matters in the pup world. As pups just want to have fun, unwind and feel accepted for who they are.
TO Says: Pups just be pups.
PR Says: Im a trans man with a gay fetish title who ids as a pup and a boy. I fond every now and again someone has an issue but it is not my issue!!
CL Says: I’m a female Shih Tzu pup. I am too nervous to actually go to an event because I have been told various reasons against my choices. I’m female so should be a kitty, a Shih Tzu isn’t a type used. I just am very shy and too weary to go to an event. I’m open to being friends with any pet. If I could change people’s ideas, then it’d be they were more accepting of anyone’s choice… If I ever got brave enough to go to an event, I’d treat everyone respectfully. As long as I’m respected and not harassed, I wouldn’t care IF I ever went to one
VA Says: I think our best bet is engage the organizing groups to be engaging and if it’s an issue with the venue then it’s time to find a new host. The LGBT community has a long history of using our money to shape change
MC Says: Everyone is who they are. Regardless. We’re all human. Regardless of our differences no one person is better than another. Especially when the reasoning has to do with simply just being your true self. Anyone who thinks only cis men (meaning biologically male) should be included at events must don’t understand the meaning of community.. and the last time I checked this community is supposed to be about respect,acceptance and love. And refusing trans male or female or trans anything simply because they are Trans as far as I see it is a complete insult to any kink community including the Pup community and I’m highly disappointed that this is a problem in such a accepting community. No matter who you are you should be welcomed at events. Plain and simple. Excuse me if I come off mean but I care enough to call it out for what it is. What I said applies when it comes to cis woman as well
SG Says: As a title holder I can honestly say that when we founded the group and have social nights and a few Mosh’s everyone is welcome and it’s been a huge success here cause puppy to most of us here hav no gender and it’s been a helped by the monthly mosh at the local leather bar that they started doing